Another Kalitta 747-200 crash

[yoni63]

Yep, know exactly what you mean, just like last week. I was taking off in a 744, I reached for the mouse to click on my comm unit so I could activate my TCAS system.... Then I hit my beer and when I saw it hit the carpet, I really did go blank... I mean just think about what my wife was going to say! Needless to say, I reverted back to my training and immediately paused FS9 and retrieved another beer! I say it was an uneventful emergency that had a pretty good turnout!

[mlegein]

I'll bet the beer in on the MEL and the before takeoff checklist.

[yoni63]

[hawkeyeted]

I guess I'll have to have a talk with my caterer. I didn't have any beer or peanuts for my flight.

At least the coffee we ready when I took off.

[eek]

Im suprised that planes that are that old with that many hours on them are still allowed to fly. Most of us dont drive cars that old .

Our cars don't normally get "C" checks, either. Last night, I saw " A Week In The Life of American Airlines" on MSNBC or CNBC (one of those NBCs). They were showing how it was done. They literally tear the plane apart and strip it bare and inspect everything. I never realized they were that thorough. Happens every 4 years. After seeing that, I'll feel alot better next time I have to get on an old workhorse. I'm sure Allan could enlighten us on it.

That was an interesting show, if you get a chance to see it.

C-checks are done at 5000 hours or 15 months, whichever comes first. D-checks are the heaviest, and dome at 25000 hours or 5 years. The problem with C-checks is that not every airline does them in house, like AA. AA in fact only does a few aircraft in house, several fleet types are done overseas in China or Mexico or the Philippines. Im not knocking the people from those countries, but have worked for carriers that utilize those companies, and the work is atrocious. Its all about $$$$$$. Anyhow, the thing with this and the previous Kalitta crash has to do with the 3 guys upstairs. I hate to say it or seem like a speculator, but unless that engine burned off that wing, theres no reason to reject a takeoff for an engine fire past V1. The 747 is capable of a 3 engine ferry, as Bryan mentioned. It can still climb on 2 engines and maintain altitude below 25000 feet on one. The FAA imposed a program not too long after the UA232 crash of a DC-10 in Sioux City called Crew Resourse Managament. It is a required program instilled at every airline that gives flight crews standardized ways of managing and streamlining their time and resources in the cockpit. I can assure you that there were many "lined up holes in the swiss cheese" here, and a peek at the CVR will likely show several mistakes being made.

That's odd that you say several types are done overseas. On the show, they were bragging how much more quickly and cheaply they can do it, and how other airlines were using AA, due to the innovative and cost effective way AA does it, for the "heavy" checks. Of course, I realize the show is edited to make whatever point the producers want to show. My mom and stepdad are retired from AA (my stepdad was mech, also), and I always find it interesting how their views of the airline industry are vastly different from media reports.

You said c checks are done every 15 months.... is that Fed regulation, or is it by airline? Going by the show, they were doing what you call d checks. Unless I misunderstood.

I have no doubt about what you say about the $$$$. I used to work with a guy who was a mech for Eastern. He told me some horror stories, especially right before they folded. Damn scary, if you ask me. I'll definitely avoid any airine "in trouble".

[eek]

They literally tear the plane apart and strip it bare and inspect everything. I never realized they were that thorough. Happens every 4 years. After seeing that, I'll feel alot better next time I have to get on an old workhorse.

I've been in the aircraft maintenance business for 20 years. The problem with tearing a plane down for heavy maintenance is that it opens the door for human error in the reassembly process (tools left behind, improper assembly, etc.). That is why there are many "Quality Checks" in place to ensure that doesn't happen.

Yeah, that thought occurred to me also. But, the way it was portrayed, the plane was flown with a tech on board, and everything was "thoroughly" tested before it was released back to service. Whatever that means. Speaking only as a potential passenger, this was far more than I expected, and I prefer that they take the chance of something not being installed correctly (which could happen just as easily during the original manufacture), than hope something doesn't go wrong during normal wear and tear.

[1691]

Check schedules are determined by the manufacturer, with conjunctive approval from the FAA, JAA, EASA, etc. Its part of the certification process. They are varied in some respects from manufacturer to manufacturer, but are the same as well. Airbus new generation airplanes (A318-A340) dont have B-checks or D-checks. A300s and A310s do. So its different everywhere you go. AA for sure sends aircraft overseas. I dont think they do a lot of D-checks, I just find it hard to believe that they have aircraft in service that would require such a deep check, or is it hard to believe that they have so many in a year that they would be able to justify a D-check line. Im sure its C-checks they are doing.

As for the report about having a technician on board, that strikes a chord with me because that was how I made a living when I worked for Polar Air Cargo. I can assuredly tell you that having a tech does not confer some special veil of confidence over the airplane and it wont break. When you have 3 hours to service oils, CSDs (generators) check tires, brakes and the rest of the exterior of the aircraft, assist with loading of the cargo due to the cargo system acting up, as well as addressing any issues that the crew as, its not like you have all week to do all these tests. Besides, theres not much more than a mechanic can do that the crew isnt going to do as part of a pilots normal pre-flight check. You just cant predict whats going to happen. Its hard out there. I can recall a specific situation where I was in Rota, Spain on a charter with an #2 engine that wouldnt respond to throttle imputs. Now consider this...with regard to everything that I mentioned above that has to be done during a normal turn, where the heck was I going to get a lift, stand or similar, to open an engine and remove a fuel filter to comply with the first part of the Fault Isolation Manual. Its not as easy as it seems sometimes.

[yoni63]

Ya, I think I have seen this... Last night on the Twilight zone, there was this guy on the wing while the plane was in flight. He kept trying to open a panel up and William Shatner was freaking out and they finally ended the show with Shatner going to the loony bin. Hmm, they should have told him about this tech on board thing....