N.T.S.B Colgan Crash Animation

[Brogs]

http://www.youtube.com/user/avweb?blend ... 3NUAy3eomg

[chevol]

Interesting! but what did go wrong ?
Luc

[Brogs]

Apparently Luc, they,re blaming the Pilots for not keeping a check on the Airspeed,they got stick-shudder and pulled back instead of pushing forward and the rest is History, Pilot Fatigue is what they are saying !

[Jamal_Pratt]

Very unfortunate i met the captain before he passed through our flight school in Florida (i also had the pleasure of meeting Chuck Colgan), but anyhow. It looks to be just a simple aerodynamic stall, in a turboprob on landing you want the control levers full forward in a low pitch high RPM setting just in case u have to go around u can get the most power output from the engines, downside to this is if u dont add power the prop is basically windmiling in the air (no thrust) Low pitch lower angle of attack.. Pilots are taught to compensate by adding power

looking at the video no power was added by the crew perhaps they were overwhelmed by the workload and the captain forgets the basics. The stall got worse when the F/O put in more flaps This shifts the Center of lift aft giving the airplane a larger tail down force causing the nose to Balloon slightly this sometime, surprising phenomenon happens in light twins aswell. In a dark cockpit, lightly lit with low crew awarness this can catch u by suprise

Pilots are taught to counter this with a little nose down force and trim it out..but when ur 5-10kts above stall there is just no time to react,

As Children we learn to move away from danger, when our brain is tired it reverts to it's basic need SAFETY sorta like a boxer when he's 5 sec from being knocked out he assumes the tutle position hes taught not to turtle because he will loose his ability to fight back. How this relates to flying is in stall training you are taught the ground is ur worst enemy..so in this video it looks like the pilot pulled the plane away from the ground he felt in immediate danger and forgot what he was taught. The stall was made even worst because the FLAPS were put full up during the recovery a string of errors led to this preventable disaster hopefully all us pilots learn from it.

[Brogs]

Couldn,t agree more!

[nwadc10]

Sounds like the CA just plain old screwed up. Looking at his history and experience I don't get a warm fuzzy feeling. He came from Gulfstream which I have flown with a few captain's who took that path to a regional. I try not to paint Gulfstreamers with such a broad brush that I don't want to give the impression that all pilots from Gulfstream are subpar because some of the captains who came from there I respect. On the other hand, there are more Gulfstreamer captains that I believe aren't up to captain standards than from any other place. One captain of this sort I had to explain to him what "descend and pilot's discretion" means, particularly the intricacies of such a clearance. This same captain is unable to do a proper crosswind landing OR TAKEOFF!!

The problem is that in general, a pilot coming from a place such as Gulfstream or other programs like it, haven't obtained enough experience, enough time hands on the controls, to properly compensate for situations such as this Colgan accident. Again, I'm not saying that all pilots from these programs are like this but you can tell who put in the effort to bridge the gap between knowledge and experience that's lost in these "pilot mills" and those who haven't. I can also tell who has been a flight instructor and who hasn't, it becomes very apparent on landings.

It's my opinion that all pilots must have their ATP or at least the flight time requirements to obtain it before being hired at a 121 airline. This coming from a guy who's employement would have been delayed by such a rule. I was hired with just over 1000 hrs and I consider myself low time. One guy in my class had 300 hrs total time which is much more scary than myself being hired at 1000! lol.

[Jamal_Pratt]

Sounds like the CA just plain old screwed up. Looking at his history and experience I don't get a warm fuzzy feeling. He came from Gulfstream which I have flown with a few captain's who took that path to a regional. I try not to paint Gulfstreamers with such a broad brush that I don't want to give the impression that all pilots from Gulfstream are subpar because some of the captains who came from there I respect. On the other hand, there are more Gulfstreamer captains that I believe aren't up to captain standards than from any other place. One captain of this sort I had to explain to him what "descend and pilot's discretion" means, particularly the intricacies of such a clearance. This same captain is unable to do a proper crosswind landing OR TAKEOFF!!

The problem is that in general, a pilot coming from a place such as Gulfstream or other programs like it, haven't obtained enough experience, enough time hands on the controls, to properly compensate for situations such as this Colgan accident. Again, I'm not saying that all pilots from these programs are like this but you can tell who put in the effort to bridge the gap between knowledge and experience that's lost in these "pilot mills" and those who haven't. I can also tell who has been a flight instructor and who hasn't, it becomes very apparent on landings.

It's my opinion that all pilots must have their ATP or at least the flight time requirements to obtain it before being hired at a 121 airline. This coming from a guy who's employement would have been delayed by such a rule. I was hired with just over 1000 hrs and I consider myself low time. One guy in my class had 300 hrs total time which is much more scary than myself being hired at 1000! lol.

I couldnt agree more i beleive congress is trying to pass a bill through that raises the minimums to fly 121 to 1500 w/ ATP..will be some years before it passes i dont think airlines would want it tho...IMO the less experiance the pilot has the less money the regional has to shell out and as long as a F/O can get a job with a wet comercial multi/ instrument regional pay will always look like crap..

To me the airlines just aint worth it anymore

[yoni63]

Justin, your post of explaining "Descend and PD" reminded me one day at Riverside Airport in Tulsa, I was waiting on the run-up pad, a Spartan student was just turning cross wind to downwind, the tower stated "Say your intentions" and in his middle eastern accent he replied, "I hope to become a private pilot!" Needless to say, you could see everyone's face in various cockpits on the run up dying laughing! It's amazing how some of us get sweaty palms on a "DME Arc" or shooting some other unfamiliar approach, and we feel insignificant because we don't know it real well, then there are guys out there that don't even know elementary basics of terminology.

[John Khan]

A bit like the Air India FO many years ago, on his first trip to Heathrow was asked by the tower.

"Say height and position"

The answer was

"I'm five foot seven and sitting up the front."

John

[PKlijnstra]

[yoni63]

LOL!!! That crash depiction above, in realistic terms.. It's that damn sudden stop that sucks...

[Brogs]

LOL!!! That crash depiction above, in realistic terms.. It's that damn sudden stop that sucks...

That reminds of the time many years ago when i was part of a Military Free Fall Team, someone asked me what happens if the rig doesn,t deploy, do you die on the way down, no i said, its not the fall of 10.000+ that kills you, its the last six inches, but what you have to do is cross your left leg over your right, so they can unscrew you out of the ground !

[yoni63]

LOL, that's a good one!

[esurfman]

LOL!!! That crash depiction above, in realistic terms.. It's that damn sudden stop that sucks...

That reminds of the time many years ago when i was part of a Military Free Fall Team, someone asked me what happens if the rig doesn,t deploy, do you die on the way down, no i said, its not the fall of 10.000+ that kills you, its the last six inches, but what you have to do is cross your left leg over your right, so they can unscrew you out of the ground !

I knew it.....6 inches have a major impact...(double meaning) Although not with the girls here

[John Khan]

It always sounds better in centimeters

John