Globe Cargo

"There have been several questions in various parts of this forum about IVAO & VATSIM - what they are and how they work. I have no experience of IVAO but use VATSIM quite regularly - to my knowledge they both work the same. In principle they try to replicate the world of ATC - there are controllers who have positions at the airport of their choice (Tower, Approach etc) and they have a piece of software that emulates an ATC radar - this software has integrated voice communications and a ""map"" of the area they are controlling. These people then act in the role of real ATC by giving all the relevant instructions & permisssions to startup, taxi, flight clearance, radar approach vectors etc. on Vatsim they have to pass a series of exams before they are let loose as ""real"" controllers so the quality is quite good (I assume this is also true of IVAO). As a pilot you need a few extra pieces of software to connect up to this network - SBRelay (for FS 2004 users), Squawkbox(V2.2) , and AVC voice comms (not essential as you can communicate by typing messages but I would strongly recommend it). You will also need to join and register with the network of your choice. The setting up can be a bit difficult the first time but a new version of Squawkbox (V3) is soon to be relased which is way bettert han V2.2 (or so I understand). PROS - more realistic, ""real"" human ATC, can see other aircraft and interact with them (e.g. have a flyin) CONS - fiddly to set up, you will often find that your departure and destination airports do not have ATC cover when you want it. Particulalry if you are not flying to/from a major hub. Also there are rules about not leaving the ""aircraft"" for more than 30 minutes (I think) . To get more details see the two web sites:- <a href='http://www.vatsim.net' target='_blank'>http://www.vatsim.net</a> <a href='http://www.ivao.org' target='_blank'>http://www.ivao.org</a> They both have download sections to get the required software (all FREEware b.t.w.) but to use the networks you must register first. If it sounds of interest give it a go - but beware it will give quite a bit more workload (at least at the start) so start with a plane that requires little effort to fly and then progress to the RFP as you become more proficient. Hope this helps. "

"I think Barry is right I always fly online, in IVAO, and it is amazing. In IVAO (and the others online nets) there are always a lot of ATC in al lot of countries. You can see the ATC in the world in both nets using servinfo. Try to see them, try to hear them using Teamspeak (as observer), and try to fly with them. Since I have flown first time in IVAO, I never have flown offline. Visit IVAO: www.ivao.org. Here all the pilots and ATCs have a file, and the logged hours are saved. In IVAO there are a Division in each country. Look for your country Divisioin and join in it. To download Servinfo <a href='http://www.ivao.org/data/files/software/si202.zip' target='_blank'>http://www.ivao.org/data/files/software/si202.zip</a>. It is easy to install Try to flight online. You never forget it!!"

"I use VATSIM but the most important is to use any of the two. In fact there are better world places for VATSIM and better places for IVAO. I tend to use the follwing things: A) if the SID STAR is complicated or I feel that the worload is too much, just say: Unable, request vectors. <!--emo&B)-->[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif[/img]<!--endemo--> If the controller assigns an altitude bellow FL100 in the departure just try to ask for an altitude above FL100 if you feel that it's going to be hard maintain IAS bellow 250. Or request high speed approach in the approach. C) I put in the comments RMK/INS NAV to make sure that the controller knows that I don't have a FMS. D) I'm the PIC so if there isn't any traffic problem is me who knows when to start descend. I believe that it's easier to fly online that with FS ATC and of course a lot more fun. Regards"

"Thanks for the great tips, anyone have anymore on flying online? As keen to give it a try as soon as I become more confident with the 742. But think I might be better of trying it out in something smaller at first, as douby ATC would appreciate newbie flying a 742. <!--emo&:)-->[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]<!--endemo--> "

I've been waiting for the new software from VATSIM as I've heard the old stuff can be quite a challenge to install and configure. Should be out soon though and as soon as it is I'll give it a go. Sounds like fun! billg

"<!--QuoteBegin-Davest+Nov 30 2004, 09:25 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Davest @ Nov 30 2004, 09:25 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Thanks for the great tips, anyone have anymore on flying online? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm a controller on VATSIM, in the Washington Center, as well as Oakland Oceanic. We do out best to teach everyone correct ATC procedures and be as helpful as we can with the pilots. It can be difficult if your busy, but we try <!--emo&:)-->[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]<!--endemo--> VATSIM uses a radar client called ASRC, which, so I'm told by real controllers, looks very much like a real radar display. IVAO still uses ProController, something that VATSIM moved away from in favor of ASRC, its very dated and lacking in functionality. FPI uses a client which I tried to use once and was lost. Looks nice, have my doubts about how effective it is as a tool for handling larger amounts of traffic. In either case, these clients use sector files, which contain airspace maps, relative to the position you are working. Ground controllers will see what amounts to an airport diagram, with taxiways, runways etc. Center controllers will have less airport detail, but cover all the airports in the ARTCC or FIR. They'll have the airwyas, waypoints, et al. and should be able to guide/vector you into any airport in the ARTCC. FPI imports large sections of the MS mapping information, which quite frankly is overkill for ATC. i.e. A sector file there will cover the northeast US, vice an ARTCC or FIR, which is what you really want. As I understand it... FPI has a very nice pilot client, smooth multiplayer, but little in the way of ATC or pilots online. IVAO and VATSIM have plenty of both. IVAO leans more toward Europe as far as ATC staffing and flying. VATSIM is more evenly distributed through the world. Connecting to VATSIM is pretty easy, for me (SBRelay, SB). It will get better once the new clients are released. We'll have the new Squawkbox (v3) and FSInn as choices. Both look very nice as far as multiplayer goes. I believe the IVAO client is simple and works nicely too. ATC side... I had a long discussion with someone about this last night, former FPI flyer. FPI has little in the way of ATC training, so I would venture to guess the level of service will be less than pleasant in most cases. IVAO, as I'm told, offers ATC training but is a little more relaxed and allow controllers more free reign. How that affects the quailty of the ATC...not sure. I've heard different things, I'll refrain from comment. <!--emo&<_<-->[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif[/img]<!--endemo--> VATSIM we offer a lot of training and I do feel we offer a high level of service overall. In all cases you will run into a controller who is in over their head from time to time. . .which is no fun. As was mentioned before, grab ServInfo look at the where staffing is, see how that suits your flying needs. Check out the web sites and join up. <!--QuoteBegin-BarryTheAviator+Nov 30 2004, 03:34 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryTheAviator @ Nov 30 2004, 03:34 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->CONS - ... Also there are rules about not leaving the ""aircraft"" for more than 30 minutes (I think).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, there is. With good reason too, kinda tough to issue instructions to someone that's mowing their lawn instead of flying. <!--emo&:)-->[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]<!--endemo-->"

"Craig, Quick question .... What is ""FPI?"" I never heard of it."

"<!--QuoteBegin-Saber+Dec 1 2004, 05:04 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Saber @ Dec 1 2004, 05:04 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Craig, Quick question .... What is ""FPI?""  I never heard of it. [right][snapback]2346[/snapback][/right] <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> FPI = Flight Project International - see their website at:- <a href='http://www.flightproject.net' target='_blank'>http://www.flightproject.net</a> Tells you all about it. "

"Both SB3 and FSInn are very nice clients. I'm testing SB3 and tried FSInn. They are different: FSInn - Is more all in one client. TCAS, Selcal distributed in several windows with a control panel to operate the main functions. - Uses P2P multiplayer and smoothing if the other plane doesn't use FSInn; SB3. - More traditional interface with integrated voice and nice modifications like auto reduce to a small interface, chat box etc. Has a SDK that allows 3rd party to develop. Personally already done some program for SB3: - GTX330 transponder with SB3 support; - Auto transponder for Airbus; - gauge to allow dummy transpoders to operate with SB3; - FSSElcal version; - Imhere version; - It uses smoothing for multiplayer. Of course both use lobby connection for multiplayer auto connect etc. I believe that they are both more or less in same state: Beta in network; Regards"

Hi Craig! I was also thinking about going online probably with Vatsim but I have no experience. Would it be better to start with like a small Cessna to learn and then fly with a Heavy? Thanks!!!

"<!--QuoteBegin-esurfman+Dec 2 2004, 09:42 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(esurfman @ Dec 2 2004, 09:42 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hi Craig!  I was also thinking about going online probably with Vatsim but I have no experience.  Would it be better to start with like a small Cessna to learn and then fly with a Heavy?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Fly something your comfortable with and can handle. Most folks' initial fears are in what to say. Hop online somewhere and listen in. One thing I found when I was starting out online was that the MS FS ATC was actually helpful with the phraseology. It gives you a pretty good idea of what to say. If you get stuck, you can always ask a controller for some assistance. If they're not too terribly busy, they'll help and will also be understanding of the fact that you're new to the online flying experience."

"Thanks Graig!! <!--emo&:D-->[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img]<!--endemo--> Maybe I should start in Washnington Center <!--emo&;)-->[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]<!--endemo--> At least, there's one controller that would be nice <!--emo&:P-->[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif[/img]<!--endemo--> although I'm sure they are all nice. <!--emo&:)-->[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]<!--endemo-->"

"Hi Guys! People have been writing a lot about the pros and cons of online flying, so here's my two cents to that discussion. I used to fly quite a lot in VATSIM using the MS default 777 before I bought RFP, but I do not anymore, mainly due to the following reasons: 1) There usually was not enough controllers around where I flew (Scandinavia) 2) The bunch of add-ons needed is tedious to configure and work with (this will hopefully get better with the new clients) 3) You cannot use time-scale, let alone pause, so the long flights with our VA would be impossible for me (the wife does not like me spending all day at the computer ) 4) Some controllers are too nit-picky about radio fraseology & procedures (in my country, Finland, at least) so flying the RFP would not be looked upon very appreciatively. But flying online is not all that bad as this might sound, it really is nice when everything is working and there are good controllers around! I just prefer offline flying nowadays because I can pause the game whenever I like and attend to other matters that might pop up during one of those 8-hour flights. See ya' in the skies! Petri"

"Petri, Thanks for the comments, I was wondering if one does choose not to fly online for all or some of those reasons you've pointed out. Whether Radar Contact is a good alternative to Vatsim for more realistic ATC? "