PMDG-747-400X

[eek]

"

Unfortunately thats correct. The 400x does include an update to FS9 and that is the only way i have heard of getting it. They call it an added bonus for those who upgrade, but if I am switching to FSX why concern me with FS9. Makes no sense... but then many things in business and flight simming make no sense.

That's what I found so strange. They're providing the FS9 update to the people who won't be using it . I've never been impressed by the way they treat their customers. On the PMDG forum, there are a few guys who are trying to talk them in to releasing the FS9 improvements as a stand alone update. So, we'll have to wait and see. Keep your fingers crossed."

[yoni63]

"Speaking of buying, upgrading etc... I just reviewed the flight yokes, rudder peddels, and throttle quadrants available, AND their prices.... I fell in love with my logitech joystick all over again! LOL It's not so bad after all...."

[eek]

"You fly the 747 with a joystick? Man, I thought I was the last of the holdouts when it came to getting flight yoke and rudder pedals. I've been using them for a couple of years now, after being a keyboard pilot for many years, and I can't imagine ever flying without them again. With the recent release of the Saitek flight yoke, I was ready to ditch my CH one, until I read about all the problems people were having. If Saitek ever gets it's problems resolved, and become viable competition for CH, those prices may come down a bit. I still don't have a throttle quadrant, but the Saitek looks pretty good.You can double them up for the 747. I think I read somewhere that some people have problems with the CH throttles. Anyway, when I was shopping around, I found amazon.com had the best prices. Quite a bit cheaper than buying from CH. Back to the FS9 update, I saw yesterday where there were some thread deletions, etc., on the PMDG forum (I missed some excitement, while I spent a couple of days upgrading my computer). Maybe we shouldn't hold our breath for that after all. Apparently, for those of us who will be sticking with FS9, PMDG is basically saying we can go perform a physical impossibility on ourselves. Can't wait to see what's going on over at Avsim tonight...lol. "

[yoni63]

"Yes, I still fly with a joystick... LOL, it's not bad, I just can't see forking over that much dough right now. If my joystick went on the fritz, then I would probably upgrade, but then the question of which one? So many issues, pros and cons, wish they would send them to you on loan for try out! If you get the yoke and throttles, you HAVE to get the rudder pedals... either that or use some improvised arrows or something on the keyboad for a rudder and that just isn't right. As for PMDG, they may have made a decent 744, but I haven't heard too many good things about their other products. Someone said a long time ago, keep hiding and watching... When a company treats it's customers like they do... They won't be around forever."

[esurfman]

"

You fly the 747 with a joystick? Man, I thought I was the last of the holdouts when it came to getting flight yoke and rudder pedals. I've been using them for a couple of years now, after being a keyboard pilot for many years, and I can't imagine ever flying without them again. With the recent release of the Saitek flight yoke, I was ready to ditch my CH one, until I read about all the problems people were having. If Saitek ever gets it's problems resolved, and become viable competition for CH, those prices may come down a bit. I still don't have a throttle quadrant, but the Saitek looks pretty good.You can double them up for the 747. I think I read somewhere that some people have problems with the CH throttles. Anyway, when I was shopping around, I found amazon.com had the best prices. Quite a bit cheaper than buying from CH. Back to the FS9 update, I saw yesterday where there were some thread deletions, etc., on the PMDG forum (I missed some excitement, while I spent a couple of days upgrading my computer). Maybe we shouldn't hold our breath for that after all. Apparently, for those of us who will be sticking with FS9, PMDG is basically saying we can go perform a physical impossibility on ourselves. Can't wait to see what's going on over at Avsim tonight...lol.

I was thinking of buying Saitek.....what problems are you taking about? Are they important problems? Should I hold of on the purchase? "

[yoni63]

"Louis, I did a search for pros and cons with that system and don't find too much, thats not saying issues don't exist. I do find their price to be not bad comparable to how their product seems to be constructed. Sounds like it is very well built. I wish they would have added one more throttle lever. To have four, you would have to buy two of those quadrants "

[rossspargo]

"LOL Bryan, your not the only one! Im still using my good 'ole Logitech Extreme 3D Pro Joystick w/Throttle Anyhow, there has been an UPDATE on the PMDG 747-400X! The majority of problems have been fixed, this includes: the Cargo Door Problems, Nav Light problems, Cargo is now shown in the aircraft and it sounds like the Cargo Load Manager has been fixed ALSO... All of those who wish to get the FS9 Update, without installing the FSX Version can do so as the installers are now seperate For more info visit the forum topic @ http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az= ... 9380&page= Ross S"

[eek]

"

I was thinking of buying Saitek.....what problems are you taking about? Are they important problems? Should I hold of on the purchase?

Louis, the problems are serious. It has to do with random keystrokes causing A/P disconnects, flaps extending in flight, gear retracting on the ground, views changing, etc. It essentailly renders the units unusable.Saitek says only a small number are effected, but there are extensive threads on Avsim and Saitek forums that would seem to indicate otherwise. Here's the main discussion at Avsim http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az= ... d=53&page= There's another discussion at Saitek's forum. http://www.saitekforum.com/showthread.php?t=12687 You have to register (free) to view it, but it's worth a look. One user opened his up and took pics of the soldering inside. They're posted on page 7 of the linked thread. Scary! "

[eek]

"

LOL Bryan, your not the only one! Im still using my good 'ole Logitech Extreme 3D Pro Joystick w/Throttle Anyhow, there has been an UPDATE on the PMDG 747-400X! The majority of problems have been fixed, this includes: the Cargo Door Problems, Nav Light problems, Cargo is now shown in the aircraft and it sounds like the Cargo Load Manager has been fixed ALSO... All of those who wish to get the FS9 Update, without installing the FSX Version can do so as the installers are now seperate For more info visit the forum topic @ http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az= ... 9380&page= Ross S

Edit: At first glance, I thought they were posting the FS9 update as a free download. Unfortunately, it appears you must still buy the FSX version to get it. Bad deal for those of us who are skipping FSX. PMDG is still missing the point. I won't be spending $85 for a patch. "

[mlegein]

"

I won't be spending $85 for a patch.

You get 50% off if you bought the 744 for FS9 from them. But still ... I agree."

[nwadc10]

"Viewing the above posts I thought I'd share some of my thoughts: PMDG's previous products have been excellent including the 744. The only complaint I have about a PMDG product is their Express line which is only 1 product, the B1900. The Express line is essential paying for a POSKY model and finding a freeware 1900 panel on avsim. I'm glad they don't make any Express products anymore. With that said, their new tactic doesn't give me that warm fuzzy feeling I used to get when talking about PMDG. I had been happy with their customer service until now. As many of you stated it just doesn't make sense to give a "free" update to what's now an obsolete model for those who are given the update. It's like Boeing saying, here's your new 787 and tell ya what, we'll throw in a free MD10 upgrade to your DC10 that you are parking next week! It just doesn't make sense. That's bad enough, but the way they handled the FS9 customers asking for the upgrade is where I am really dissappointed in one of my *very few* "trusted" developers. As Michel had mentioned, they seem to be going the way of PSS which absolutely lost my business after the 777 fiasco, but they also lack the quality of PMDG products. Yokes: I have the 3 piece set of CH products. I've been using it for about 3 years now with only 1 problem which was very recent. My rudder pedals would cause the rudder to "drift" to the left. If I wasn't paying attention I'd taxi right off the twy. Recalibrated and it didn't fix. Then I blew the dust and gunk out of the pedals themselves and now it works fine. I haven't had any problems with the throttle quad as someone stated they had heard it had issues. The throttle quad in fact is my favorite piece of hardware. The construction does worry me a bit as it's all plastic. The Saitek setup has caught my eye and as my current components fail I may replace them with Saitek. If anyone is looking at the CH package definately get them from amazon.com. I saved $200 off list price from CH and got free shipping. In total, the package of 3 products was about $300."

[PetriSuni]

"I do agree about PMDG arrogant attitude towards customers. I don't think such quips like the following quote from AVSIM should appear in a company's communications towards paying customers: "If you do not COMPLETELY uninstall the previous version, you will have problems later, and we'll all be here to tell you "we told you so!"""

[eek]

"

I do agree about PMDG arrogant attitude towards customers. I don't think such quips like the following quote from AVSIM should appear in a company's communications towards paying customers: "If you do not COMPLETELY uninstall the previous version, you will have problems later, and we'll all be here to tell you "we told you so!""

LOL.... I thought the same thing when I read that. They truly don't "get it". What's even more telling, is the thread in the FS9 forum at Avsim (I'm eek there, as well, and have posted in it a few times, also) called "744 for FS9/FSX" that's been hovering at the top for days now. That sucker's 8 pages deep and has yet to be locked or deleted. That's a lot of unhappy customers with a legit complaint, obviously. PMDG's days at the top of the payware food chain are numbered, unless they change their business practices. Actually, it may be too late, at this point. Concerning Saitek: I've been following this saga fairly closely. From what I've read, people like the feel of the Saitek yoke, especially compared to the CH, but they apparently hired chimpanzees to do the soldering, thus the random button presses/keystrokes. . On the Saitek throttles, upon reflection, most issues had to do with people installing Saitek's software for calibration and assignments. It's corrected by zapping the Saitek software and just doing it all from Windoze XP. People also seem to prefer the feel of the Saitek throttles. The only downside seems to be the clamps, which are huge and interfere if you have an under desk shelf for your keyboard. Some small $1 c-clamps from your local hardware store supposedly fixes the problem. Once they get their QC and design issues straightened out, I think we'll have a good product and a choice. You can't complain about CH quality, as far as usability is concerned. But, it's hard to escape the plastic cheesiness on the yoke, and only having one lever for 4 engines. Currently, I have the CH yoke and pedals. My plan at the moment is to go ahead and get two Saitek throttles (I wish they'd just make a 4 engine variant), wait for Saitek to get it together to change yokes, and keep the CH pedals (no problems, well built, also comes with inserts so they can be used for driving games). Overall, it's good that CH is getting some competition. As it stands now, we can get CH, or spend way too much."

[Avwriter]

"I think you guys are being much too hard on PMDG. I too am turned off by the occasionally arrogant sounding comments made on their forum, but if you take these commetns in context it is usually quite understandable. I think a lot of this comes from the fact that they are a small group of very smart people with highly technical backgrounds. They are also probably heavilly overworked (I doubt any of them do this full time). I doubt that anyone here questions the fact that they are very good at what they do. However, they have limited funds and limited manpower, and customer service is a naturally time-consuming activity. Secondly, if you have spent much time at their forum, you know that a small but extremely vocal portion of their customers are idiots who rant like children and are very quick to make outrageous assumptions about the product before verifying that the problem is not of their own creation. This can be tiring and insulting to someone who poured his heart and soul into a project for nearly two years. Thus, I think it is reasonalble to suggest cutting them a little slack, if they snap back every once and a while. The truth is that their customer service is actually pretty good most of the time. I mean look at how quickly they turned out the first patch, and look at just how many real customer service issues that they resolved. As for the FS9 update, I think it is kind of silly from both ends. True, PMDG would probably have been better off just giving it away, however, people are making way too big a deal about it. The changes in this update are pretty subtle. Additionally, though, it is fair to note that it is NOT a patch. It does not fix anythihg that was broken, it simply adds a handfull of very small features. No one required, or even expected them to issue this update, and if they had not done so, few, if any, would have complained about it. I think the lesson for them is that they probalby should not have bothered, since it is work that they will probalby not get much of a return on. I think PMDG is in no danger of loosing its status. Except for Level D, no one comes even close to matching the depth of their products."

[rossspargo]

"

I think you guys are being much too hard on PMDG. The truth is that their customer service is actually pretty good most of the time. I mean look at how quickly they turned out the first patch, and look at just how many real customer service issues that they resolved. I think PMDG is in no danger of loosing its status. Except for Level D, no one comes even close to matching the depth of their products.

I agree with Andrew. Give the guys @ PMDG a break! lol They have been working hard getting the 744X out to us and answering the 100s of questions that have flooded in within the first couple of days of release. I mean, yeah I think I would have got a tad ****ed off and said some harsh things by the time I had searched the forums, answered tons of questions and then having people say that service isnt good enough! I have had nothing but excellent service from PMDG, for example, they fixed the Cargo Loader Bug within a matter of few days of being alerted of it! IMO, PMDG is far from loosing its high quality status and I wish them well for their future products "