Alternates

Post by **nwadc10** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:29 pm

Pop quiz: When is a destination alternate required? When is a takeoff alternate required?

This is an attempt to train as I'm sure many of our pilots don't know the regulations and hopefully it will enhance the realism of your flight planning. These are US regulations I'm looking for and that we operate by (per the real polar/atlas/dhl).

Post by **1691** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:43 pm

nwadc10 wrote:Pop quiz: When is a destination alternate required? When is a takeoff alternate required?

When its on the release?

Post by **nwadc10** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:07 pm

1691 wrote:
nwadc10 wrote:Pop quiz: When is a destination alternate required? When is a takeoff alternate required?
When its on the release?

So you trust your dispatcher?? You are headed for an FAA violation!!

mvm · Post by **mvm** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:36 pm

Destination is the 1,2,3 Rule
+/- 1 hour of your ETA ceilings 2000 ft and 3 sm vis...

T/O requirement straight from the books here
If the weather conditions at the airport of takeoff are below the landing minimums in the certificate holder's operations specifications for that airport, no person may dispatch or release an aircraft from that airport unless the dispatch or flight release specifies an alternate airport located within the following distances from the airport of takeoff:
(1) Aircraft having two engines. Not more than one hour from the departure airport at normal cruising speed in still air with one engine inoperative...etc etc etc

this would pertain to us
(2) Aircraft having three or more engines. Not more than two hours from the departure airport at normal cruising speed in still air with one engine inoperative.

Post by **nwadc10** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:48 pm

mvm wrote:Destination is the 1,2,3 Rule
+/- 1 hour of your ETA ceilings 2000 ft and 3 sm vis...

And what constitutes a "ceiling"?

mvm wrote: T/O requirement straight from the books here
If the weather conditions at the airport of takeoff are below the landing minimums in the certificate holder's operations specifications for that airport, no person may dispatch or release an aircraft from that airport unless the dispatch or flight release specifies an alternate airport located within the following distances from the airport of takeoff:
(1) Aircraft having two engines. Not more than one hour from the departure airport at normal cruising speed in still air with one engine inoperative...etc etc etc

this would pertain to us
(2) Aircraft having three or more engines. Not more than two hours from the departure airport at normal cruising speed in still air with one engine inoperative.

Don't worry about determining landing mins in the certificate holders ops specs...just use the minimums for the approach. Now, if you are taking off on 22 which is severed only by an NDB approach (mins of 400-1) and it is the only useable rwy because of the wx conditions but 15 has an ILS approach with mins of 200-1/2, which landing minimums are used to determine the need for a takeoff alternate?

mvm · Post by **mvm** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:17 pm

Ceiling would be broken or overcast cloud cover
not sure on the second requirement Justin but i believe rwy15...you are allowed to use the lowest landing minima served by the airfield correct?...it's been awhile

Here's another addon for this discussion
ok kids not all airfields can be a designated alternate...what are the requirements?

yoni63 · Post by **yoni63** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:05 pm

"Now, if you are taking off on 22 which is severed only by an NDB approach"

Justin, lol, we already have a problem if RW 22 is severed!

[/i]

Post by **nwadc10** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:36 pm

mvm wrote:Ceiling would be broken or overcast cloud cover
not sure on the second requirement Justin but i believe rwy15...you are allowed to use the lowest landing minima served by the airfield correct?...it's been awhile

Here's another addon for this discussion
ok kids not all airfields can be a designated alternate...what are the requirements?

That's the gray area...the reg states you must be legal to land at that airport considering wx conditions, aircraft status, and crew qualifications. What do they mean wx conditions? Typically a crosswind component is not a limitation for an aircraft but for example on the CRJ there is a crosswind limitation of 15 kts when landing on a contaminated runway (hopefully a 747 pro can tell us if a similar limitation exists for that aircraft). Conceivably if rwy 15 would exceed that limitation you'd have to use the rwy 22 minima when determining landing legallity. For discussion's sake, aircraft status can affect approach minima if for example DME is inop and there are lower mins for DME equipped aircraft. Crew quals can affect the mins if for example the captain is "high minimums" which adds 100 ft and 1/2 nm to the minimums.

I leave the other question for someone else to answer

phil747fan · Post by **phil747fan** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:08 pm

mvm wrote:Destination is the 1,2,3 Rule
+/- 1 hour of your ETA ceilings 2000 ft and 3 sm vis...

T/O requirement straight from the books here
If the weather conditions at the airport of takeoff are below the landing minimums in the certificate holder's operations specifications for that airport, no person may dispatch or release an aircraft from that airport unless the dispatch or flight release specifies an alternate airport located within the following distances from the airport of takeoff:
(1) Aircraft having two engines. Not more than one hour from the departure airport at normal cruising speed in still air with one engine inoperative...etc etc etc

this would pertain to us
(2) Aircraft having three or more engines. Not more than two hours from the departure airport at normal cruising speed in still air with one engine inoperative.

Same for Canada rules CARs 725.34 but i must add if ETOPS apply (company certificate) (2) is for twin jets too ...

phil747fan · Post by **phil747fan** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:24 pm

the more funny is about alternate ....

Alternate Aerodrome Weather Minima

602.123 No pilot-in-command of an aircraft shall include an alternate aerodrome in an IFR flight plan or IFR flight itinerary unless available weather information indicates that the ceiling and visibility at the alternate aerodrome will, at the expected time of arrival, be at or above the alternate aerodrome weather minima specified in the Canada Air Pilot.

without CAP not so easy lol ....

Post by **esurfman** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:23 pm

nwadc10 wrote:Pop quiz: When is a destination alternate required? When is a takeoff alternate required?

This is an attempt to train as I'm sure many of our pilots don't know the regulations and hopefully it will enhance the realism of your flight planning. These are US regulations I'm looking for and that we operate by (per the real polar/atlas/dhl).

How do you take-off from an alternate? Take I-95 then exit at 42 enter at Gate Bravo then taxi to runway at alternate airport???

yoni63 · Post by **yoni63** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:13 am

No silly! You have to take the service road down, turn left at that convenience store, then go down three blocks and jump on I-95, and then you better make sure you use the car pool lane or you'll get a ticket!

Post by **1691** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:47 am

yoni63 wrote:No silly! You have to take the service road down, turn left at that convenience store, then go down three blocks and jump on I-95, and then you better make sure you use the car pool lane or you'll get a ticket!

Carpool lane is only from 7-10 AM to 4-6 PM.

phil747fan · Post by **phil747fan** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:58 pm

1691 wrote:
yoni63 wrote:No silly! You have to take the service road down, turn left at that convenience store, then go down three blocks and jump on I-95, and then you better make sure you use the car pool lane or you'll get a ticket!
Carpool lane is only from 7-10 AM to 4-6 PM.

I ve tried to be serious lol .... i understand why FAA FAR 121 parts are more demanding than JARs or CARs ???!!!!! lol

cyoo eddie · Post by **cyoo eddie** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:02 pm

How do you take-off from an alternate? Take I-95 then exit at 42 enter at Gate Bravo then taxi to runway at alternate airport???

I was wondering that myself, those overpasses must be a tight squeeze for 744s, the RJs may be able to get through.....

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