Flight Operations Center....

[RCR]

....by Urs Wildermuth.
I have been considering purchasing this software for awhile. I know that some of you here at GCVA use this program. I am hoping to get some user input on this product, especially regarding the learning curve, as it seems to be a very complex piece of software. Also, any other pros and cons that you might be able to share would be appreciated. I am already aware of the cost of the Weather and AIRAC subscriptions, so no need to go there.

Regards,

Robert

[mvm]

It is a fairly complex program and does require a lot of dedicated time to learn,but it will give you complex ETOPS,STOPS,etc planning capability as well as really accurate fuel burn/loading rates for most commercial aircraft...the weather utility is great for a fee you can access Metar LTAF,STAF as well as upper winds for any flight level around the world which will also be used for calculating fuel burn for your aircraft on your route,downside is you can only export these plans in FS9 .pln format so i usually print a copy of my final plan that it has generated and load the fmc with the route manually or you can use the routes in the >pilots>download section of the site use those routes to plan,then when you're ready to fly load your fmc via the company routes option,again if you have our routes preloaded in the fmc,apparently this program was developed by a real world dispatcher,overall it is a great program but like I said it does take some time to learn.

[RCR]

It is a fairly complex program and does require a lot of dedicated time to learn,but it will give you complex ETOPS,STOPS,etc planning capability as well as really accurate fuel burn/loading rates for most commercial aircraft...the weather utility is great for a fee you can access Metar LTAF,STAF as well as upper winds for any flight level around the world which will also be used for calculating fuel burn for your aircraft on your route,downside is you can only export these plans in FS9 .pln format so i usually print a copy of my final plan that it has generated and load the fmc with the route manually or you can use the routes in the >pilots>download section of the site use those routes to plan,then when you're ready to fly load your fmc via the company routes option,again if you have our routes preloaded in the fmc,apparently this program was developed by a real world dispatcher,overall it is a great program but like I said it does take some time to learn.

Thanks for the reply, Mike.

yeah, I like the programs ability to calc. ETOPS/STOPS, one of the things that I'm interested in. I understand that there is a program someone wrote (can find it on avsim) that converts the FS9 .pln to the PMDG .rte format -pretty cool. I would probably enter the flight plan into the FMC by hand anyway. How did you go about learning the software -was the manual sufficient- or trial and error. Is there good forum support?

Regards,

Robert

[peter]

This product goes on one of my all time waist of money products. Just aboout impossable to learn how to use it and the instructions are not use full.

I have looked in my grave yard and found the package. my email is petcmc@yahoo.com - I be more than happy to get it to you.

[1691]

I have and use this program all the time. It is a bear to learn, but once you get the hang of it its really worth it. I love it.

[PetriSuni]

I've found the fuel calculations to be somewhat inaccurate/wrong for the PMDG 747. Otherwise the program is ok, except (like you said) for the price of the subscriptions, which has caused me to slowly start favoring other options...I do still use the route planner from this pkg, though.

[Brogs]

It is a fairly complex program and does require a lot of dedicated time to learn,but it will give you complex ETOPS,STOPS,etc planning capability as well as really accurate fuel burn/loading rates for most commercial aircraft...the weather utility is great for a fee you can access Metar LTAF,STAF as well as upper winds for any flight level around the world which will also be used for calculating fuel burn for your aircraft on your route,downside is you can only export these plans in FS9 .pln format so i usually print a copy of my final plan that it has generated and load the fmc with the route manually or you can use the routes in the >pilots>download section of the site use those routes to plan,then when you're ready to fly load your fmc via the company routes option,again if you have our routes preloaded in the fmc,apparently this program was developed by a real world dispatcher,overall it is a great program but like I said it does take some time to learn.

Thanks for the reply, Mike.

yeah, I like the programs ability to calc. ETOPS/STOPS, one of the things that I'm interested in. I understand that there is a program someone wrote (can find it on avsim) that converts the FS9 .pln to the PMDG .rte format -pretty cool. I would probably enter the flight plan into the FMC by hand anyway. How did you go about learning the software -was the manual sufficient- or trial and error. Is there good forum support?




Regards,

Robert

The programme for PLN to RTE is ( pln2rte101) its a nifty bit of Kit, if anyone wants it I can email it, i get all my .rte Plans from Routefinder so I only use the conversion s/ware offline for my casual stuff

[RCR]

Thanks for all of your responses -I appreciate it.

Peter,
Thanks for your offer to send me your copy of the program -I appreciate it! It seems that you can download the program with out purchase and use it in "Trial Mode", but this won't give you access to the weather and AIRAC updates which is need to use the program to its fullest.

Petri,
In the fuel calc's, have you tried tweaking the "Bias". I was cruising the Danur forums and stumbled on this -perhaps the fuel burn can be adjusted to be closer to the PMDG model by using this -don't know for certain.

I went ahead and purchased the software this weekend. I'm a long time FSBuild user and love that program, and know it inside and out, but really wanted to use something where you could create several routes and then compare them as to which one would be the most optimum, as well as throwing in the STOPS/ETOPS calculations. I can tell that there is a steep learning curve, but I'll take my time and play with it, using FSBUILD when I'm in a pinch to complete a flight, until I can do the same with FOC.
As I'm learning the program, If I can't get my questions answered in the Danur forum, I hope that I might be able to ask one of you who use the program to help me out.

Regards,

Robert

[Stephen Bell]

Gents,

Just my two 'penny worth'

I have been using FOC for some 2 months now with fantastic results.

Prior to joining GCVA I flew for 'the worlds favourite airline' amassing some 1500hrs as a 747-436 (RR RB211-524H) driver & flight planning has always been a subject of fascination for me.

It really is worth taking the time to learn the ins & outs and it's quirky nature ... the beauty of FOC is that even if you are in a hurry you can get a very comprehensive flight plan ... convert this into the format for the PMDG FMC ... load your fuel ... & go ... loading your WPT Winds in the air just like the RW drivers sometimes have to!

The WX data that is used in the calculations is RW from Jepp & IMHO produces much more precise results ... when individual WPT Winds & temps as printed in the FOC Flight Plan are checked against the current WX file in Active Sky 6.5 I see differences of less than 5% in speed, direction & OAT.

Gone are the FS Build days of running a representation of the flight plan through AS6.5 ... this only gave WPT Wind info for the currently loaded WX ... this obviously can become a real issue the futher you fly ... as the WX can & will change throught the flight.

FOC will predict the spot WPT Winds as they occur through the flight ... & as I have already pointed out this is extremly close to what AS6.5 spits out at the appropriate time. So just load AS6.5 & let it run ... ensuring it does update from time to time.

The full package with WX & AIRAC cycles really is the way to go.

On the subject of fuel burns ... the GE engined PMDG 744F burns in the region of 3-5% more than the FOC calculations ... simple to calculate by inserting a bias prediction of 0030 or 0050 respectively in the appropriate box prior to pressing 'CALCULATION'. I flew SYD-PVG last Sunday & arrived within 100kgs of the planned landing fuel...having loaded the WPT Winds into the FMC at the gate ... not bad for a 9hr flight!

The only slight issue is that for the PMDG 744F only M.860 Cruise Tables are available ... tables for M.850 & M.840 are planned ... if anybody has access to these then I am sure the FOC Team would be interested.

The STOPS EROPS facility is a very useful tool & enables you to precisely determine your ETP between ALTNs (LATLON & PBD points) ... it makes the longer sectors a breeze ... & these ETPs are a breeze to insert into the RTE ... FOC even gives you radii to place around your ALTNs in the FIX Page.

So ... IMHO ... probably ... (in conjunction with AS6.5) ... the best piece of FS software I have ever purchased ... sadly my printer ink cartridge now needs replacing more often LOL!

Kind Regards

Steve Bell

GCVA 2021
BAW0538

[1691]

Steve,

Well said. I am also pumping more money than ever into HP's cartridge division.

[mvm]

Steve,

Well said. I am also pumping more money than ever into HP's cartridge division.

I'm on my third printer!!

[chevol]

These discussions are very, very interesting! I had a look at the FOC webside and the prog looks great, being made by a swiss german it is, no doubt, very zolid and zerious!!! But, it is not cheap, the subscriptions are costly too... now you are talking about the printers... is it really worth all this money? I am working with Fsbuild, Active Sky, Topcat + all the free info (weather, NATS, routes) available on the web and all this seems good enough to produce very realistic flight plans and conditions. What am I missing ? may be I am just a bit jalous...

[Brogs]

These discussions are very, very interesting! I had a look at the FOC webside and the prog looks great, being made by a swiss german it is, no doubt, very zolid and zerious!!! But, it is not cheap, the subscriptions are costly too... now you are talking about the printers... is it really worth all this money? I am working with Fsbuild, Active Sky, Topcat + all the free info (weather, NATS, routes) available on the web and all this seems good enough to produce very realistic flight plans and conditions. What am I missing ? may be I am just a bit jalous...

Totally agree Luc, where do we stop ? I use Topcat, Routefinder, AS6, nDAC, but have stopped printing off my Fuel ,Take-off info etc, I already have 3 Boxfiles full of Charts and Routes, if we keep on the preparation is going to take longer than the Flight

[esurfman]

Luc, is it worth it to buy the full version of TOPCAT?

[chevol]

Yes Louis, I am very happy with Topcat and the prog is constantly being updated by its creator, it is a very nice piece