Getting a bit quiet in here ....

Post by **nwadc10** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 4:32 pm

"I believe the speed limit when making turns in the whale is 10 kts. Also, be very gentle when initiating the turn. Even on 90 degree turns there is no need to make the turn an aggresive maneuver. ""Roll"" into the turn on the ground much like you roll into a bank in the air, nice and smooth. On the sharp turns you may need to bump the power up a little bit so that the extra friction doesn't bring you to a stop in the middle of the turn. Justin"

globecar · Post by **globecar** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 4:36 pm

"Speed is restricted to 10 knots when making a 90 degree turn. Most airlines which I have manuals from restrict the straight line taxi to 25 knots but I am sure pilots may push closer to 30 knots. If you use the taxi gauge it will bump the power as required in any type of turn. <span style='color:blue'>From the Atlas Air Manual Make large radius turns whenever possible. For sharp turns, use a maximum of 10 knots at start of turn to avoid nose tire scrubbing. Allow a few feet extra wing tip clearance during turns and watch wing tips closely when near other aircraft or ramp equipment. Do not make rapid abrupt movements of steering tiller. If steering tiller is released while in a turn, the nose wheel will rapidly return to the rudder pedal steering position. Tire temperature must be considered when taxiing long distances. Heat continues to build up in the tires throughout the taxi and is greater at increased speeds. For all heavy weight taxi operations avoid the use of brakes as much as possible by slowing well below taxi speed and letting speed build up to 20 knots before again applying brakes.</span>"

BarryTheAviator · Post by **BarryTheAviator** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:36 am

"<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nwadc10 @ Jul 11 2005, 08:32 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>I believe the speed limit when making turns in the whale is 10 kts. Also, be very gentle when initiating the turn. Even on 90 degree turns there is no need to make the turn an aggresive maneuver. ""Roll"" into the turn on the ground much like you roll into a bank in the air, nice and smooth. On the sharp turns you may need to bump the power up a little bit so that the extra friction doesn't bring you to a stop in the middle of the turn. Justin [right][snapback]4234[/snapback][/right] </div> Justin, Thanks for the answer - genuinely useful, but I was jesting (a little) [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif[/img]"

Post by **nwadc10** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:44 am

"<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryTheAviator @ Jul 12 2005, 12:36 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Justin, Thanks for the answer - genuinely useful, but I was jesting (a little) [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif[/img] [right][snapback]4236[/snapback][/right] </div> That crossed my mind but I could also see how some can have problems with turning so I erred on the side of caution and gave a bit more instruction [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img] Justin"

leelg · Post by **leelg** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:11 am

"Regarding vertical speed at touchdown, one tip Bert gave me which really helps is to maintain a higher landing speed. I use Vma as my final approach and target speed when I begin the flair. The reason for the higher landing speed is it eliminates bleeding off too much speed on the flair and worrying about approaching a stall. Airspeed can be ignored through the flair so your focus can remain on a good flare and soft touchdown. My harder landings always seem to coincide with a lower IAS. The trade-off is a longer rollout and possible touchdown further down the runway but Bert said the higher speed is worth it. Hopefully Bert will chime in and clarify this further but believe me, it works. Lee "

Post by **nwadc10** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:46 am

"That is a good point and when I say ""target speed"" I intend to say whatever speed you intend to fly on final approach. A little higher speed is a good tip but not to much higher because as Bert said you may float down the runway a little further. I usually fly Vref+10. Don't get so involved in making a smooth touchdown that you use half the runway trying to make it smooth. We all would much rather have a hard landing than over running the end of the runway. Airlines require touchdown to occur within the touchdown zone...the first 3000 feet of the runway (and also marked with touchdown zone runway markings every 500 feet on a precision instrument runway). If the touchdown isn't made within that distance, it's an automatic go-around. I consider a good landing speed out of myself when I never see the ""Alpha"" mode light illuminate on the Auto Throttle panel. If you fly exactly at Vref and try to make a smooth touchdown with an extended flare you are pretty much garuanteed to illuminate the Alpha light. For those who don't recall, the Alpha light illuminates when the aircraft gets below what the airplane considers to be a safe flying speed and nearing a stall. It also triggers the A/T to increase the speed it's holding to bring itself out of Alpha mode and back to safe flying airspeed. (I'm going off of memory here, if anyone sees a technical error, please correct me) Justin"

BarryTheAviator · Post by **BarryTheAviator** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:30 am

"<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(leelg @ Jul 14 2005, 04:11 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Regarding vertical speed at touchdown, one tip Bert gave me which really helps is to maintain a higher landing speed. I use Vma as my final approach and target speed when I begin the flair. The reason for the higher landing speed is it eliminates bleeding off too much speed on the flair and worrying about approaching a stall. Airspeed can be ignored through the flair so your focus can remain on a good flare and soft touchdown. My harder landings always seem to coincide with a lower IAS. The trade-off is a longer rollout and possible touchdown further down the runway but Bert said the higher speed is worth it. Hopefully Bert will chime in and clarify this further but believe me, it works. Lee [right][snapback]4265[/snapback][/right] </div> All sounds logical to me - so long as you have the runway available and do not need to overheat the tyres or brakes to pull up in time. I'll give it a go - up until now I usually try to nail it on Vref + half gust as I cross the threshold. I'll try adding an extra 5 knots and then 10 knots and see what difference I get."

yoni63 · Post by **yoni63** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:43 am

"<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nwadc10 @ Jul 8 2005, 08:43 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>You are correct, Barry, and I was thinking the same thing when I read Bryan's post. Bryan, did you accidentally reverse what you intended to write? If not, please explain in more detail the technique you describe. On final, you should be focusing on your aiming point (but don't forget about what else is going on around you, including the rest of the runway!). The object is to keep your aiming point on the same point on your windscreen with no relative movement...in other words it appears to be still only getting larger in size as you get closer. Once in the flare your eyes should shift to the end of the runway. Doing this will give you a greater sense of height above the ground. If you fail to do this by keeping your eyes focused just ahead of the airplane you will most likely have a very rough landing. Case in point...about a year ago I was flying a PA28R-201, a Piper Arrow III which is a ""complex"" airplane with retractable gear and flaps and a constant-speed propeller (that's the FAA's definition of a complex airplane). I was finishing a flight from KDLH to KSTC, my home airport and I departed KDLH right about dusk so I knew I would be making a night landing...I also knew my landing light was inop. The landing light being inop wasn't a big deal, I've landed at night before in my training with the landing light turned off to practice situations just like I had this night. As I crossed the threshold at KSTC, I noticed the left nav light (green) lit the runway much more than I would have expected. Here's my mistake. Because I could see the runway markings if I looked down and to the left, I could actually see the runway surface I figured that might work better (even though I really did know better than not to do that). That runway came up on me very fast resulting in a hard, 3 point landing. Because my eyes were focused so near the airplane I was unable to judge my height above the ground with any accuracy. Had I shifted my eyes to the far end of the runway and used the runway edge lights as a reference like I had been taught (and will emphasize when I teach my own students), the landing would have been uneventful. The good news is that first, I didn't bend or break anything and second, it was late at night, past everyone's bed time so I was the only witness to that carrier landing [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img] Justin [right][snapback]4200[/snapback][/right] </div> I think you are right Justin, More less what I was saying is don't focus on one thing, LOL, touchdown point is very important to keep in view, and what you said about keeping the nose on the TD point is exactly what I should have put in the middle of all that. I had forgotten that little detail. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif[/img] You all read it right, I wrote it wrong. Ewww did that make sense? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ph34r.gif[/img] I remember what my IP told me was to keep moving my eyes but at the same time, don't forget to focus on the goal being the TD point. I remember one detail that we had to watch was not to land before the arresting cable! We had one guy shear off a nose gear on the cable during a night flight. It was quite nasty looking but all walked away! BTW, I got a good chuckle at your night landing story Justin! LOL Its always an excellent landing when there are no witnesses!!!!"

chevol · Post by **chevol** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:59 am

"Speed! speed! speed! In the Transport Canada pilot bulletin there is a sentence like ""learn from the mistakes made by others, you wont have enough time to make them all"" or something like that... Here is my mistake: landing in VIDP I was lined up well, my approach speed was VREF + 8 (148) I was carefully listening to the GPWS, it called 40, 20, 10 and boum! I was so concentrated on polishing my flare while listening that I did not see my speed dropping to 130! result: -730fpm... my worse landing in months. I'll never get even near the hall of fame with landings like that. May be I should fly balloons... Have a good week end [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/angry.gif[/img]"

yoni63 · Post by **yoni63** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:45 am

"<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryTheAviator @ Jul 11 2005, 03:18 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Now all I have to do is to stop knocking the wing tips off when I am taxying [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/happy.gif[/img] [right][snapback]4233[/snapback][/right] </div> Speaking of wingtips, have you noticed at KORD and at SBKP the taxiway in a couple of places forces you off into the grass to keep from cutting a vent in the terminal? LOL"