Flight Shedules harder than Rubiks cube !

densleyp · Post by **densleyp** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 9:17 am

" I sat down today to try and look at flight shedules for my bid for the coming month. Despite having created several workbooks in Excel for each of the new regions, I am utterly confounded by the structure and find it impossible to track multi legged flights !!! ( I know, I know....I might be a bit a slow here compared to others ) Just looking at the HKG shedule sheet we have 8 flights departing on sat at 15.45, all with the same flight number but all going to different destinations ??? Looking at LGG a flight leaves at 09:05 as po509 for GOT on Sunday but looking at the GOT shedule, nothing departs until wednesday with flights to Nth America, Asia and Europe..so return to LGG is as po531 at 09:50 ?? why are these planes sitting on the ground for two days before starting to earn revenue again ? Also a flight departs Jakarta on sundays as po128 at07:10 to Nrth America, destination LCK ??? Looking at the Nrth American shedules..no such destination exsists..Do flights fly into this destination and then disappear?? I guess I need a step by step breakdown on how to read and work these shedules, I hope I'm not the only one to be a bit dumb founded by all this ??? oh and one last thing.........how do i read a departure which has three possible flight numbers for the one single flight? ie Hongkong to Miami on Saturday??? Do i fly as po148? po081? or as po055 ? None of the above is intended to be in any way a critism of the excellent work put into this VA ..I'm just a bit confused with the new shedule structure. Phil "

Jure · Post by **Jure** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 11:01 am

" Phil, there's two of us...

You said it all in detail, so I will just add my voice to your questions. "

densleyp · Post by **densleyp** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 11:20 am

" Jure,.....no problems mate, I've been at this for the best part of three hours now and still haven't figured out the flights and their legs..Might be a help if we knew which was the start locations and followed the flight from there..? "

globecar · Post by **globecar** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 11:59 am

" I mentioned in an earlier thread that there appeared to be some broken links in the schedules. Plus the apparent broken links they use local times so a 12 hour flight could be only a 3 hour flight on the schedule . A 3 hour flight departing on Monday may arrive on Tuesday. It is confusing and will take a few weeks to sort it all out. As we fly the flights/legs, find the correct links that would be needed, we can make corrections to the Polar schedule. Until we have done them once we will not know how they work and what departure/arrival times are involved. With everyone's help over the next flight period, we can construct the schedules so they do work and keep the main strcture in place. We have only been flying a month and we have come a long way. Let's see what happens in the next month. "

ianshawcross · Post by **ianshawcross** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 12:56 pm

" This is confusing for sure....... but the best I can make out..... for example flight PO168 Departs Sydney at 0645 on Tuesdays, and then routes HKG (don't know the arrival time) where it departs at 1450 (local) to TPE, departs TPE 1645 (local) and arrives in ICN at 1905 (local). It departs ICN at 2215 (local) (after another crew change, first being in HKG) for LAX where it arrives at 1715 (local, same day having crossed the dateline). Another crew change and then it goes on to LGG where it arrives at 0335 on Wedensday (local) and finally on to GOT where it arrives at 0850 on Wedensday. It presumable then departs GOT with a completely different flight no. to somewhere else, Middle East or America etc before finding it's way back to Sydney where the same flight (number) will do exactly the same thing a week later. As best as I can make out, there are at least 3 crew changes, HKG, ICN, LAX and probably LGG too.... and each stop it will drop off cargo and take on some new cargo. This then creates more headaches for US because you will have to change the payload and ZFW for each leg. I know I WON'T be doing that for the first few flights....... I will be far too busy working out the routes for the flight planning! I also worked out PO148 which departs Sydney at 0645 on a Tuesday (presumably alternates flight nos with PO168 depending of frieght demands.....) but then goes from TPE on Wedensday 1645 and routes HKG ORD JFK ATL MIA VCP SCL where it terminates 2015hrs on Friday! It then leaves SCL at 2225 as flight PO72 for MIA.... It also appears that several flight nos are used for one actual flight..... (like code sharing on the pax carrying ones), then it gets very complex! It took me well over 1 hour just to work these two flights to put on the Bidding form.... gave up after that! Hope this helps somewhat....... and if I am wrong....... I've just confused EVERYONE even more!! Can I just say that in my case... I've bid for PO168 and although it goes through to GOT, I've put my destination as North America on the bidding form where I'll jump off at LAX and rest up....... I'll see how long it takes me to get there before I can commit to flying the full route. Ian Shawcross Asia / Australia Region.... "

densleyp · Post by **densleyp** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 1:14 pm

Ian............Thanks for the detailed explanation ! I'll try and follow it through on my spreadsheets and then if I feel I have a better understanding I'll look at making my bid......

the_opt · Post by **the_opt** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 1:24 pm

" Phil, I too am confused about the schedules. I just figure dive in and fly and then in the coming months it will be clear to all of us. Thanks for speaking up cause I have the same thoughts as you but just kept quiet

"

ianshawcross · Post by **ianshawcross** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 3:35 pm

" Phil, Troy.... Yeah, it's not easy is it...... you basically have to go through all the hubs double checking so I might have missed a stop off........ customers wouldn't be happy but hey...... it's all new to everyone. Guess we'll just have to work it out as we go along.... if anyone else has any better ideas feel free to jump in! Safe landings! Ian "

Joshua · Post by **Joshua** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 5:26 pm

" This is waht I've been confused about this whole time. Thanks for posting. It's nice to know that I'm no longer the ""only one who's confused"". That's the reason I decided to wait until next month to join, hopefully by then things will be more stable and the new schedule system will be complete. "

densleyp · Post by **densleyp** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 5:34 pm

" Guy's.....I was always taught that "" there is no such thing as a stupid question"" so I have always questioned the things I cannot understand.....don't struggle on in blind ignorance.....ask and ""ye shall find the light"". I have created three excel workbooks that are a direct replication of the shedules here on the site, I find it much better to start tracking flight legs with printed spreadsheets, than to keep flitting from shedule to shedule here online. If anyone wants a copy, I am more than willing to upload them, if someone can give me the neccessary instructions about how to go about it ....... Regards Phil

"

globecar · Post by **globecar** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:07 pm

You can zip your files and keep them under 100 kb. You can then attach them to your thread. Another alternative is to go to the Polar Air Site. Their scgedule is in a download PDF format which can easily be printed.

Jure · Post by **Jure** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:45 am

" Ian, I tried to track the flight PO168 like you described... now, I can see it goes to LGG, but how on earth did you figure out that from LGG, it goes to HKG? What flight No.? Furthermore, I can't for the life of me find a flight HKG-TPE??? Nothing goes to TPE out of HKG. Is there some rule about changing flight numbers that I am not aware of? Sorry for being this dense, must be the heat...

I humbly ask for an ""idiot's guide to Polar routes""

"

densleyp · Post by **densleyp** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:52 am

" Jure my friend, I'm with you. Enough is enough, I've now spent the best part of a whole day driving myself insane trying to make sense of these shedules. I'm sure the wife is thinking of sending for the men in white coats to take me away !!! I can not make sense of these shedules and wish that those folks who have already bid for their routes come and explain what they did to track their flight through the shedules... Also looking at the bidding form, how will administrators know what flight the bidder is thinking of in the case of multiple flights, using same flight number but going to different destinations.... ie: looking at the current bidding roster someone has bid for flight no po380...this leaves LGG at 05:50 on Wednesdays and Saturdays, but two flights depart at this time using flight number po380. One goes to JKT and the other goes to KWI. As we can only input flight numbers for our bids I might want to fly po380 to JKT but get awarded KWI ?? Unless of course it doesn't matter what i fly so long as its one of the two po380 routes ??? Can I please request to be on leave or fly one of the Atlas shedules for August? Then maybe as we get to Sept bidding we might have made some sense of all this and I can make a sensible and responsible bid. Ralph, As I said in an earlier mail this is in no way any criticism of the site or of the superb efforts put in by you guys and I fully accept that things are still in their infancy, its just getting to the point where I'm about to throw my monitor out the study window !!! Regards Phil

"

Vito · Post by **Vito** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:25 am

" Jure and Phil ! Don't do it !

We need good pilots and maybe few beers will help for better concentration on this. Now try to follow me

... I see that many people area have problem switch tracking flights over the globe so here is just my modest advice how to approach to this. First write down on piece of paper your departure and arrival airport. Decide what days you want to do flying. Write it down. Now look at your departure airport on what days you have flight to your desired destination. When you see flight which suites your preferences (time of departure and day) write down number of flight and timings of arrival to your destination. . Now goes the hardest part. You must figure in which direction is your flight departing - for example flight from Bombay to JFK usually goes through China and Japan and then reaches America, it is not logical that this flight will depart to the west through Europe, UK and then America. If you have made mistake in your evaluation in which direction your flight will go then you would not find any of your flight numbers along airports to your destination - obviously you have started in wrong direction - turn arround !

As Bombay is in India you will check all airports in India on the day you are flying and day after if your flight is maybe scheduled to land on some airports here. This is a little game to play but in few minutes you will know how to follow logic of some flights - flight Bombay - Sydney has very small chance to go over airports in China but maybe you will find it on some airports in Japan - so you must check airports in Japan if there is trace of your flight ! After you are aware of approximate route of your flight you can start verifying airport through your fictions route to find where else your flight is present and where is not. When you get into this you will easy follow your route to your destination. Use your timings (you have wrote down on your paper) and check with those you find on different airports. Use the same procedure to find your way back. We are aware that current schedule has some leaks but when you find them report it to us and we will fix it as soon as we find time. "

globecar · Post by **globecar** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:49 am

" </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Ralph, As I said in an earlier mail this is in no way any criticism of the site or of the superb efforts put in by you guys and I fully accept that things are still in their infancy, its just getting to the point where I'm about to throw my monitor out the study window !!! </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> I'll be down there to catch it.

First </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Use the same procedure to find your way back. We are aware that current schedule has some leaks but when you find them report it to us and we will fix it as soon as we find time. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> No need to worry about the return flight. One way will keep you busy enough. There will be many problems during August with these flights but that's what we can expect when adapting the real world to our simulation. I anticipate the need for some schedule revisions over the next few weeks but we have used the real one as a starting point. Don't let it drive you crazy but just fly it as best you can and report by e-mail to us the changes that will be required to each flight to make it work correctly. Many flight numbers merge with others as the legs progress but then there are those that seem to have forgotten to include the second or third flight number. August is a trial month for the schedules and we will sort it out. September should be smoother with everyone's help. "