Hydralics Failure

rossspargo · Post by **rossspargo** » Tue May 30, 2006 5:05 pm

"Hey all, I am GC's youngest pilot (14) yay, so you all may think this was my fault. I have my first flight which is chartered from Winnipeg to Krakow (GTI234). I had the recommended fuel but only lasted for 1/4 of the flight [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif[/img] After i had stopped for a refuel, shutdown the engines, filled er up and took off, the problems occured. I had flaps for the takeoff, all is OK, then at 1000ft all 4 HYD systems went down, i tried to reboot them, but NOPE. I couldn't retract the flaps and landing gear would not operate, so i had 2 choices, Do a belly landing or damage my flaps in-flight. I chose try a belly landing and FS recognised this as a crash, due to only being approximately 1/4 of the way throught the flight, would it be recommended for me to re take the flight. PS. What can i do about my Fuel Problem? My Cargo is Office Furniture 128,000lbs and the Recoomended Fuel for the trip was 264,190lbs! Thanks, Ross Spargo"

Post by **nwadc10** » Wed May 31, 2006 12:16 am

"<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rossspargo @ May 30 2006, 09:05 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Hey all, I am GC's youngest pilot (14) yay, so you all may think this was my fault. I have my first flight which is chartered from Winnipeg to Krakow (GTI234). I had the recommended fuel but only lasted for 1/4 of the flight [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif[/img] After i had stopped for a refuel, shutdown the engines, filled er up and took off, the problems occured. I had flaps for the takeoff, all is OK, then at 1000ft all 4 HYD systems went down, i tried to reboot them, but NOPE. I couldn't retract the flaps and landing gear would not operate, so i had 2 choices, Do a belly landing or damage my flaps in-flight. I chose try a belly landing and FS recognised this as a crash, due to only being approximately 1/4 of the way throught the flight, would it be recommended for me to re take the flight. PS. What can i do about my Fuel Problem? My Cargo is Office Furniture 128,000lbs and the Recoomended Fuel for the trip was 264,190lbs! Thanks, Ross Spargo [right][snapback]8940[/snapback][/right] </div> Hi Ross and welcome aboard! Interesting problem, I haven't had that happen though I have had all 4 engines shutdown and wouldn't relight. Because you landed to refuel that should have terminated FSACARS or FSFK (which ever you use) and you should have filed a PIREP for that leg. You can begin from your fuel stop as though the flight you mentioned never happened, except that you have to pay for the lost hull [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img] As for your choice of action on the flight in question...though you are Pilot in Command the final decision is yours and yours alone (after examining all options and preferred outcomes). I would have flown below the max flaps extended speed because you can make a safe landing still. Also, the landing gear is the only shock absorbtion the aircraft has built into it. On touchdown your crew and passengers may have injured their backs [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img] Your fuel problem is common. First of all, the recommended fuel is just that, recommended but may not be what you need. The RFP fuel planner will be more accurate. When you determine a fuel stop is needed you may plan for an appropriate airport to refuel and fly that flight like any other. Begin another flight from your fuel stop to your final destination. You don't need approval to break up a long flight into two legs if it's for an emergency or fuel stop. Now that you have a plan to refuel, you can takeoff from your departure airport with much less fuel than if you tried to fill the tanks and make the flight non-stop. Less weight equals a lower power setting to maintain a specified speed which means the airplane is more efficient. Enjoy your flight! Justin "

John Khan · Post by **John Khan** » Wed May 31, 2006 12:43 am

"Hi Ross First the fuel problem, the trip is about 3989 NM direct so - Basic empty weight 342000lbs Cargo 128000 ZFW 470000 lbs Using the RFP Fuel Planner with; Trip Length 4500 NM (allow for Jet routes, SIDS STARS etc.) Alternate 100 NM Cruise Alt 37000 (after step climb) Route Contingency 60 mins Taxi Time 20 mins ZFW 470000 No wind allowed for, gives; 290608 lbs required. ie all tanks full except the Centre which should be 55% = 61972 lbs. What you had on should have been enough, but only just and with no, or a tail wind. I have gone a bit over with the numbers, better to have a bit over, but not too much remember the old saying -""It costs fuel to carry fuel"". Were all tanks low or was it a crossfeed problem? Were the flaps and gear fully retracted? Were the spoilers fully retracted? Did you have a problem maintaining the speed? Did you use the Fuel Planner? Don't use the suggested fuel from the Dispatch form. As Justin says the Hydraulic failure could be anything, perhaps the settings on the Hydraulic Panel?? I also had a complete engine failure on the last flyin, I could not see any wrong settings so,- who knows?? Regards John PS did you get the Liveries yet? "

BarryTheAviator · Post by **BarryTheAviator** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:23 am

"<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rossspargo @ May 30 2006, 09:05 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Hey all, What can i do about my Fuel Problem? My Cargo is Office Furniture 128,000lbs and the Recoomended Fuel for the trip was 264,190lbs! Thanks, Ross Spargo [right][snapback]8940[/snapback][/right] </div> Ross, First question is what aircraft were you flying? the RFP 747-200 or the PMDG 747-400? Second question is - did you actually run out of fuel or did the engines shutdown with fuel starvation? If the latter then you have either not managed the fuel correctly (not switching between tanks correctly) or you have had fuel icing that has blocked the filters (need to turn on the fuel heaters). If you had actually run out of fuel then there is a problem somewhere, in that you are consuming about 4 times as much fuel per hour as you should be, either that or somewhere along the line you opened up the fuel vents and pumped it over board (unlikely). I can think of no reason why the consumption should be so massively out of norm unless there is a problem with some of the Aircraft settings within FS9 itself (e.g. the aircraft config file). The only other reason I can think of for a very high consumption rate is that you were flying with a lot more drag than normal and/or were at very low altitude - e.g. gear still down, flaps extended or spoilers up (or all three !) The amount of fuel you loaded would partially fill the centre tank and this would run empty at about 1/4 of the way into the flight - just when you ran out. Are you absolutely sure that you had the fuel manifold correctly configured and all the fuel pumps running? About the hydraulics failure - when you said that you tried to ""reboot"" them what did you actually do? Also have you got FS9 configured for random ssytem failures? - because this may have caused it. Depending on which aircraft you were flying there are standard procedures to follow in the event of a hydraulic failure, with back up pumps to power the hydraulics. Finally did you check the hydraulic fluid levels during your preflight?"

rossspargo · Post by **rossspargo** » Wed May 31, 2006 4:31 am

"Hey Guys, Cheers for your replies. John, im using the UPS Livery for the Atlas Chater ATM [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]. Im going to tell you the story of how it was. I done all my pre-flight checklists and everything was good. I had no warning lights active, flaps 20 and green and started rolling out of CYWG. I climbed to FL370 where i maintained. I kept on looking at my Fuel Panel (I am using RFP i dont have PMDG) i realised that something is wrong. I ran out of centre fuel at roughly 1/5 of the journey. The fuel configuration was in the Cruise and Climb setting al the way apart from taxi. When i realised that i had ran out of centre fuel i started to panic but then left the configuration as it was because No.2+3 main where larger than No.1+4. When they evened out i had only got approx. 1/4 of the flight [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif[/img] . So i decided to take a fuel stop. I read the procedures on the fuel stop and saw that you had to have the engines fully spooled down, so i shut them down. When i shut them down, the 2 lights for each engine came on like usual on the warning board. I made a pressure refuel and started them up, all looked OK. I took off had flaps 20 again, ger down and just i was to retract the flaps, the would not move and all 4 HYD lights illuminated. I tried flicking various switches in the Hydralics Panel but nothing happened. So i decided to turn around, put my gear down and land, but ohhhhh no the plane wasnt having that, would not let me extend the gear [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif[/img] So i tried a belly landing at 155kts, but FS recognised this as a crash, took me back to CYWG and i didn't know what to do so i closed FS and FSACARS and came on to here. Please i really need some advise on the Fuel, because i dont really want to have to do all these stops, how do i make it last the whole 10hrs? What do i do when only on tank to engine with only 29,400 lbs of fuel in each tank for 4000NM? Thanks All, Ross Spargo"

Brogs · Post by **Brogs** » Wed May 31, 2006 6:30 am

"<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rossspargo @ May 31 2006, 02:31 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Hey Guys, Cheers for your replies. John, im using the UPS Livery for the Atlas Chater ATM [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]. Im going to tell you the story of how it was. I done all my pre-flight checklists and everything was good. I had no warning lights active, flaps 20 and green and started rolling out of CYWG. I climbed to FL370 where i maintained. I kept on looking at my Fuel Panel (I am using RFP i dont have PMDG) i realised that something is wrong. I ran out of centre fuel at roughly 1/5 of the journey. The fuel configuration was in the Cruise and Climb setting al the way apart from taxi. When i realised that i had ran out of centre fuel i started to panic but then left the configuration as it was because No.2+3 main where larger than No.1+4. When they evened out i had only got approx. 1/4 of the flight [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif[/img] . So i decided to take a fuel stop. I read the procedures on the fuel stop and saw that you had to have the engines fully spooled down, so i shut them down. When i shut them down, the 2 lights for each engine came on like usual on the warning board. I made a pressure refuel and started them up, all looked OK. I took off had flaps 20 again, ger down and just i was to retract the flaps, the would not move and all 4 HYD lights illuminated. I tried flicking various switches in the Hydralics Panel but nothing happened. So i decided to turn around, put my gear down and land, but ohhhhh no the plane wasnt having that, would not let me extend the gear [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif[/img] So i tried a belly landing at 155kts, but FS recognised this as a crash, took me back to CYWG and i didn't know what to do so i closed FS and FSACARS and came on to here. Please i really need some advise on the Fuel, because i dont really want to have to do all these stops, how do i make it last the whole 10hrs? What do i do when only on tank to engine with only 29,400 lbs of fuel in each tank for 4000NM? Thanks All, Ross Spargo [right][snapback]8947[/snapback][/right] </div> Hi Ross, What are you using to fuel up the Aeroplane? its recommended that you use the RFP Fuel Panel, using fs9 to fuel the RFP is a no no ! I also had this problem of sudden fuel loss so I just re-installed the Aircraft and it seemed to cure it, as for your Hydraulic Problems they could be part of the random failures built into the RFP. Apropos your crashes sending you back to the starting airport, go to this link ,- <a href='http://www.schiratti.com/dowson.html' target='_blank'>http://www.schiratti.com/dowson.html</a> scroll down and install the Autosave dll, this will enable you to keep flying the approach until you get it right in case of a crash [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img]"

rossspargo · Post by **rossspargo** » Wed May 31, 2006 6:36 am

"<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Brogs @ May 31 2006, 10:30 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Hi Ross, What are you using to fuel up the Aeroplane? its recommended that you use the RFP Fuel Panel, using fs9 to fuel the RFP is a no no ! I also had this problem of sudden fuel loss so I just re-installed the Aircraft and it seemed to cure it, as for your Hydraulic Problems they could be part of the random failures built into the RFP. Apropos your crashes sending you back to the starting airport, go to this link ,- [url=http://www.schiratti.com/dowson.html] scroll down and install the Autosave dll, this will enable you to keep flying the approach until you get it right in case of a crash [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img] [right][snapback]8949[/snapback][/right] </div> Hey Brogs, Yes i used the Pressure Refuel on the Fuel Panel (where you click in the right hand corner of the grey box), cheers for the link, i have downloaded the patch and will install it any min. Thanks, Ross S"

BarryTheAviator · Post by **BarryTheAviator** » Wed May 31, 2006 6:48 am

"<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rossspargo @ May 31 2006, 08:31 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>When i realised that i had ran out of centre fuel i started to panic but then left the configuration as it was because No.2+3 main where larger than No.1+4. When they evened out i had only got approx. 1/4 of the flight [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif[/img] . So i decided to take a fuel stop. [right][snapback]8947[/snapback][/right] </div> Ross, OK I think we need to start from scratch here - first off read the RFP 747-200 manual, Section 1, from page 104 onwards - this describes the fuel system in detail and the various tank settings for each stage of flight. Next make sure you ONLY ever fuel the aircraft using the pressure fueling panel NEVER use the FS fuel loader - this ensures that tanks are loaded in the correct sequence (starts outboard and works inwards, filling the centre tank last). This makes sure the wings are destressed as much as possible during flight. The scenario you describe is OK - the centre tank should empty first and this will leave you with all 4 mains (1,2,3,4) and the reserve tanks nearly full - in total about 225,000 lbs. So the fact that your centre tank was empty did not mean that you were about to run out - you still had (or should have had if fuelled properly)about 100 tons of fuel still on board. It is important to follow the correct fuel procedures described in the manual - there is no short cut."

Post by **esurfman** » Wed May 31, 2006 9:41 pm

I know someone who once ran almost ran out of fuel way before he should have. It turned out that said person used the speed brakes and had forgotten to bring them done. To be nice I will not divulge the pilot's name. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]

cyoo eddie · Post by **cyoo eddie** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:43 am

"[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif[/img] also make sure the apu is shut off after engine start or you will see tank 2 go down quicker than usual. Not good on a long haul, 8 hrs apu can use lots of fuel. ed mosier 1287"

rossspargo · Post by **rossspargo** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:55 pm

"Hey All, Thanks for the tips. I will definetley check the APU next time and i had the fuel configuration for taxi and takeoff in the Climb and Cruise setting. I have never forgot do arm and disarm the speedbrakes thankfully so that is no prob. Like i said will definetley check the APU. Thanks to Barry for checking certain things with Flight Profiles, but Barry, it still shows my flight in the Pilot Pirep Info section, Show Flight Profiles, then enter my Name or Pilot No. and i will show you the information i described earlier. Just one thing about the Preesure Refuel, when i shutown the engines and filled up, i started the APU but had no External Power, would this of caused the lack in Hydralics? Thanks All, Ross S"

BarryTheAviator · Post by **BarryTheAviator** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:47 pm

"<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rossspargo @ Jun 1 2006, 04:55 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Hey All, Thanks to Barry for checking certain things with Flight Profiles, but Barry, it still shows my flight in the Pilot Pirep Info section, Show Flight Profiles, then enter my Name or Pilot No. and i will show you the information i described earlier. Thanks All, Ross S [right][snapback]8956[/snapback][/right] </div> Ross, There is no PIREP for this - just the flight profile which is collected when you fly connected to the web server - it has no effect on your records so I will leave it. By the way have you reviewed the discussion about fuel? (the centre tank being empty but the wing tanks still full?)"

rossspargo · Post by **rossspargo** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:49 pm

"<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryTheAviator @ Jun 1 2006, 06:47 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Ross, There is no PIREP for this - just the flight profile which is collected when you fly connected to the web server - it has no effect on your records so I will leave it. By the way have you reviewed the discussion about fuel? (the centre tank being empty but the wing tanks still full?) [right][snapback]8958[/snapback][/right] </div> Hey Barry, Thanks for all your help, i have read the Fuel section over twice and when i fly i am going to keep pages 110+111 open for reference. Thanks for the info on Flight Profiles and PIREP's, the differences. I finally think i am able to complete my flight when i get back from Butlins, Minehead on Monday [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img] Happy Flights All, Ross S - 1425"