Possible Pinnacle Strike

khelm · Post by **khelm** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:02 am

So, Justin; what are your thoughts on the possible strike at Pinnacle? (if you are allowed to talk about it

)

Is the Standard pay rate really that bad?

Jamal_Pratt · Post by **Jamal_Pratt** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:43 am

Khelm regional pilot pay in the USA is horrible...thats why im kinda reluctant to do the whole regional Airline thing once SJS (shiney Jet Syndrome) wears of u realize ur in a Job with long hours unpredictable work schrdules and crappy Pay..

Mike Schmitt · Post by **Mike Schmitt** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:29 am

I wish no strike on anyone. I wish you the best Justin... Labor issues are never fun to deal with.

I can second that about the starting wages, although not from a pilot stand point but from a person who love to fly. I would to resume my flight training and jump into the seat but at 20 to 24k a year for the first years is hard to live on single let alone with a family like I have. Heck, I work at an airport and we are so under paid compared to our city counterparts in the fire department.

Its amazing to me we spend anywhere from 50k to 75k at some training locations to get to the right seat only to make at best half our investments in a salary. I am still hopeful to one day get that chance, but at 42 (Wife and three daughters) that chance is floundering at best. My father did start flying with a regional carrier (Allegheny now a part of Piedmont) at an older age than I, but he had a military pension to compensate for the low starting wages.

Jamal_Pratt · Post by **Jamal_Pratt** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:50 am

Mike your right it's no worth it to go into the regionals at tate age..u will be sacraficing your fam financial security and stability to follow a dream..

instead i would look at corporate flying or instructing

guys like me and Justin (How oldare u Justine) are young..im 21

so we can live the bachelor life and weather the storm untill we get to the better paying flying Jobs

Post by **1691** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:21 pm

Jamal_Pratt wrote:so we can live the bachelor life and weather the storm untill we get to the better paying flying Jobs

LOL, I do believe that Justin is happily married.

Post by **nwadc10** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:56 pm

This strike thing is hyped up much more than it should be. All we did was take a strike authorization vote to give the union that option if it ever gets to that point. The strike vote was done now to send a message to management that it's time to quit stalling and get the new contract done. We can't legally strike yet and it will probably be months before something as serious as a strike will happen. There are no plans for a strike as of yet.

Pay is horrible in the regional airline's. Some are much better than others. Pinnacle is towards the bottom. A manager/supervisor at McDonald's literally makes more than I do, flying 50 people around in a jet. The new contract will improve FO pay for second year by about 25% which is argueably still lower than industry average. There are work rules that need fixing in the contract as well. But, there are two things you can do: whine and complain until you hate your job that you once wanted so bad, or you can forget about the BS and realize you are pretty fortunate to fly a jet and get paid for it. I tend to follow the latter because I've seen way too many bitter airline pilots and I always remarked to myself that they don't realize how lucky they are. With that being said, I don't think the industry should remain a poor employer like it is...things have to improve or the airlines will be hurting...they already are.

Post by **1691** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:21 pm

nwadc10 wrote:I tend to follow the latter because I've seen way too many bitter airline pilots and I always remarked to myself that they don't realize how lucky they are.

Lots of truth there. Nice to see that even a pilot realizes it. Well said, Justin.

Jamal_Pratt · Post by **Jamal_Pratt** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:34 pm

nwadc10 wrote:This strike thing is hyped up much more than it should be. All we did was take a strike authorization vote to give the union that option if it ever gets to that point. The strike vote was done now to send a message to management that it's time to quit stalling and get the new contract done. We can't legally strike yet and it will probably be months before something as serious as a strike will happen. There are no plans for a strike as of yet.

Pay is horrible in the regional airline's. Some are much better than others. Pinnacle is towards the bottom. A manager/supervisor at McDonald's literally makes more than I do, flying 50 people around in a jet. The new contract will improve FO pay for second year by about 25% which is argueably still lower than industry average. There are work rules that need fixing in the contract as well. But, there are two things you can do: whine and complain until you hate your job that you once wanted so bad, or you can forget about the BS and realize you are pretty fortunate to fly a jet and get paid for it. I tend to follow the latter because I've seen way too many bitter airline pilots and I always remarked to myself that they don't realize how lucky they are. With that being said, I don't think the industry should remain a poor employer like it is...things have to improve or the airlines will be hurting...they already are.

Justin i agreed with everthing you said until u said this "whine and complain until you hate your job that you once wanted so bad, or you can forget about the BS and realize you are pretty fortunate to fly a jet and get paid for it. I tend to follow the latter because I've seen way too many bitter airline pilots and I always remarked to myself that they don't realize how lucky they are"

this is the reason y our pay is so low SJ syndrome..Management see pilots are willing to work for near damn minimum wage just because flying a Jet is cool when it's all said and done it's a JOB a J.O.B, JOB we all know how it feels to pay a ton of money on that new shiney toy only to find out over time its not as appealing as it use to be..it will happen i dont care what anybody say QUALITY OF LIFE vs SHINEY JET i choose Quality of life..

so if as a truck driver i make more money and spend more time at home.. so be it screw the shiney Jet....

as pilots i dont think we complain enough because in managements eyes all they need to do is put a toy in our hands pay us what they think we are worth and we just sit there and accept it...

just my 2 cents

GREEDY MANAGEMENT + SJS = PISS POOR PILOT PAY

Mike Schmitt · Post by **Mike Schmitt** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:16 pm

My father used to tell a story of one of his first officers who would whine and complain at how bad management was. Not to say there are great but. He would normally be flying the same approach when he could not take it anymore. The approach was always into Philly and for anyone familiar with the city over the Schuylkill expressway and he would firmly remind them that they could be like most people and be stuck in that 2.5 hour jam to the airport... or realize what a life he has and add that they would be there in 15 minutes. Point is like Justin said

you can forget about the BS and realize you are pretty fortunate to fly a jet and get paid for it

Believe me if I could afford to proceed with my flying I would and love your seat Jamal but reality says I can not get the needed money to accomplish my training. So for now I am content with my Privates Pilot License but always watching out for away to live my dream. Oh BTW I did drive a semi for 10 years coast to coast and believe its much worse than the airlines

Post by **nwadc10** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:47 pm

Jamal_Pratt wrote:
nwadc10 wrote:This strike thing is hyped up much more than it should be. All we did was take a strike authorization vote to give the union that option if it ever gets to that point. The strike vote was done now to send a message to management that it's time to quit stalling and get the new contract done. We can't legally strike yet and it will probably be months before something as serious as a strike will happen. There are no plans for a strike as of yet.

Pay is horrible in the regional airline's. Some are much better than others. Pinnacle is towards the bottom. A manager/supervisor at McDonald's literally makes more than I do, flying 50 people around in a jet. The new contract will improve FO pay for second year by about 25% which is argueably still lower than industry average. There are work rules that need fixing in the contract as well. But, there are two things you can do: whine and complain until you hate your job that you once wanted so bad, or you can forget about the BS and realize you are pretty fortunate to fly a jet and get paid for it. I tend to follow the latter because I've seen way too many bitter airline pilots and I always remarked to myself that they don't realize how lucky they are. With that being said, I don't think the industry should remain a poor employer like it is...things have to improve or the airlines will be hurting...they already are.
Justin i agreed with everthing you said until u said this "whine and complain until you hate your job that you once wanted so bad, or you can forget about the BS and realize you are pretty fortunate to fly a jet and get paid for it. I tend to follow the latter because I've seen way too many bitter airline pilots and I always remarked to myself that they don't realize how lucky they are"

this is the reason y our pay is so low SJ syndrome..Management see pilots are willing to work for near damn minimum wage just because flying a Jet is cool when it's all said and done it's a JOB a J.O.B, JOB we all know how it feels to pay a ton of money on that new shiney toy only to find out over time its not as appealing as it use to be..it will happen i dont care what anybody say QUALITY OF LIFE vs SHINEY JET i choose Quality of life..

so if as a truck driver i make more money and spend more time at home.. so be it screw the shiney Jet....

as pilots i dont think we complain enough because in managements eyes all they need to do is put a toy in our hands pay us what they think we are worth and we just sit there and accept it...

just my 2 cents

GREEDY MANAGEMENT + SJS = PISS POOR PILOT PAY

I'm not saying it's right the way mgmt treats pilots, it's pretty bad in most cases. I'm saying that there are more important things in life to worry about. How is the quality of life for a pilot, or anyone for that matter, who complains all the time?? I'd say it's pretty poor regardless of conditions. I just choose not to get caught up in that. QOL is already hurting enough in this industry just because of management and a little of the type of job itself, why would I want to make it even worse by b****ing all the time? People like that are always miserable...that's not me.

In what capacity are you in aviation, Jamal?

BTW, I fully support a strike.

Jamal_Pratt · Post by **Jamal_Pratt** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:59 pm

my whole argument is that it's Pilots vs management and at times management's lackluster buisness tactics have pitted pilot against pilot (Go-Jet,/ TSA Chataqqua /XJET)

I just think pilots need to start taking a stand more and im glad that pinnicle pilots are fighting hard to change that..I just feel upset that management abuse the fact that pilots love to fly..i know some guys that were content getting $18 an hour..

The fact that we fly million dollor equipment going mach .74 with a bunch of lives in our hands and our careers constantly on the line (all real pilots know exactly what i mean)
The FAR's are written in a language that would make a supreme court judge cringe..

we should get treated with more dignity and worth...

Justin im Commercial ASEL MEL rated

little over 550 TT and 410 Multi

Post by **nwadc10** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:06 pm

Jamal_Pratt wrote:my whole argument is that it's Pilots vs management and at times management's lackluster buisness tactics have pitted pilot against pilot (Go-Jet,/ TSA Chataqqua /XJET)

I just think pilots need to start taking a stand more and im glad that pinnicle pilots are fighting hard to change that..I just feel upset that management abuse the fact that pilots love to fly..i know some guys that were content getting $18 an hour..

The fact that we fly million dollor equipment going mach .74 with a bunch of lives in our hands and our careers constantly on the line (all real pilots know exactly what i mean)
The FAR's are written in a language that would make a supreme court judge cringe..

we should get treated with more dignity and worth...

Justin im Commercial ASEL MEL rated

little over 550 TT and 410 Multi

There you sound more reasonable. I agree with your statements. This job is a lot of responsibility and it can be lost with a simple infraction of the FARs, medical condition that wouldn't even phase another career, and the pay doesn't quite match that...I agree. My point is that I'm not going to hate my job because of it. I'm speaking with regards to a general outlook on life I guess.

Pinnacle pilots aren't going to take mgmts crap anymore and the strike vote proves that. 87% of the pilots on payroll voted (I couldn't vote, I'm still in the probationary year and don't pay dues yet..I would have voted if I could) and of those pilots, 99.37% voted YES. That's pretty unified for a group of 1200+ pilots.

cyoo eddie · Post by **cyoo eddie** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:11 pm

well, I dont think it is corporate greed here, as a company, a regioal, or any airline for that matter is in it to make money, a profit. No profit, and it closes up, then you go and get that rewarding career at Macdonals. I it seems like there is not a huge amount of profit in the airline business these days after all the overhead is paid.

I agree with Justins take on it, you do it because you love to fly, but a family would definatly need 2 incomes to servive these days.
But you need to look at the regionals as a stepping stone to move up to better airlines. You may struggle financially now, but the rewards later on may be great.
Any job will suck after a few years, mainly due to managment issues, so if you going to hate your job it may as well be a job you love....

Jamal_Pratt · Post by **Jamal_Pratt** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:04 pm

eddie i agree with the Reg being a stepping stone and all that stuff and we all look to land a Major gig or corporate gig like netjets but i think pay can be so much better at least 2nd year pay for that matter and the company will still have profit..

because in general the FAR restrictions is what hurts us the fact that we can only work 100 hours per month or 32 hours per week but the average Joe works 40 hours per week minimum u can see the diff that makes in a paycheck like i tell people yeah starting off pilot pay is $22 an hour they go wow thats not bad but then i say yeah but u can only work 32 hours a week and maxing 32 per week is like overtime lmao..

Average Joe- $22/hr x 160hrs x (hours worked per month Minimum assuming no days off) $3520 per month

Regional pilot - $22/hr x 100hrs (Lets say we maxed out ) $2200 per month WOW!

DAMN THE FARS

so based on the above John and Pilot Joe both make $22 per hour but because Pilot Joe can only work 100 hrs per month limits his pay per month while John can work a MINIMUM of 40 hours and bring home a signficant amount more..

it just sux but like Justin and eddie said it can be so much worst

what was your TT Justin when u got hired?

yoni63 · Post by **yoni63** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:07 pm

Justin, you said a mouthfull, I see new young officers hit the streets all full of "piss and vinegar" (forgive the saying) and it doesn't take long for some "burn out officer" to get to them and start whining and moaning. I left law enforcement for about 5 years and came back into it. I was glad to be back, (never know what you miss till it's gone) and then one of the moaners came by and started slaughtering the job, management, pay, conditions, etc.. When I found out I had roughly 10 more years experience than him and made him realize that, he got quiet.

You can moan and gripe until your blue in the face, and like you said, wake up one day and literally hate the job you used to love so much. It's a mindset that any occupation can find on the job. Be it a truck driver, (which I too have done) or pilot, or customer service rep at your local cell phone company, it doesn't matter. If you get into the gripe rut, your going to hate it for life. But the thing to remember is, your next job will eventually be just as crappy to you as the first.